On this url Can my DAC fully unfold MQA? | iFi audio ifi confirms that the zen dac could not unfold MQA. It’s only a MQA renderer, so on volumio MQA doesn’t work.
For the V2 I read it different:
Seems not:
Can my DAC fully unfold MQA? | iFi audio (ifi-audio.com)
I found this out by testing a Nano iOne.
EDIT: it seems the iFi support site is not updated and now the newer ZEN DAC V2 does supports it.
Unfortunately MQA organisation doesn’t explain their own technology application on existing market gear correctly. For example iFi is on their website list like they are offering full decoders but only two of their most expensive DAC’s support now full decoding (first unfold + rendering).
It seems they are not tracking on device level, only on manufacturer level.
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Try this link
Scroll to the bottom black part of the page. It lists several models, stating if they can do full decoding or not.
I assume MQA site can be incomplete and/or wrong, but it seams to be a good starting point…
Yes that link indeed seems accurately mentioning:
- full decoding: first unfold (device is including license 50 euro by MQA corp) + rendering
- rendering for final unfold: rendering ONLY (no license for first unfold; this means that files will play for example 48khz 24 bit, but without the lossy MQA part added. I.m.h.o. sounds quite good anyway because the 24 bit holds most important lossless data).
About incorrect data on the MQA site, I was referring to their page:
Playback Devices | Unlock Studio-Quality Sound of MQA | MQA,
where it says “MQA-enabled Digital Audio Converters provide full decoding for the highest possible sound quality”.
It should say: DAC’s that can either:
- render previously unfolded MQA;
- or otherwise immediately unfold (decode) and render MQA.
Or better even split the category. At least on their generic device introduction page they should avoid the terminology “fully decode” in order to prevent any confusion. Because in the detailed device pages they use this term full decoding only for devices that have the “first unfold” license. This way it is appropriately distinguishing from “rendering only” devices.
Don’t you think?
The vagueness happens probably because of marketing reasons: no manufacturer wants to name their device: “MQA rendering ONLY”, as it seems like you are buying a not so great product.
Now you see some manufacters start to talk about:
last unfold, or 4x MQA/ 16 MQA (SMSL e.g.). While the MQA docs talk about “expand” once, twice or third time. Expand once is equal to first unfold. The “full decoding” devices can do a complete first, twice and third unfold. Then “renderer only” devices: most can do twice and third, but it seems some smaller devices can do only twice. I think this is what SMSL calls “4x MQA”.
I think it would have been better if MQA had prescribed conventional naming with clear definitions. And some examples of expected applications with an explanation. Like “some low powered smaller devices can still have a good level of sound using MQA twice unfold. The higher powered gear. Desktop DAC should be fully decoding only.” And say more about the fact that even without any MQA decoding it still sounds awesome, so people will be less hesitant to start using MQA enabled services like Tidal. It doesn’t hurt and you are not locked into MQA once you start using this service.
P.s. I
In fact with greater bandwidth now other hi-res (non-MQA) services (like Qobuz and Highresaudio) will also gain more market volume.
Then you also have this new UAT (and LDAC) bluetooth bandwidth, so you could stream high-res from your UAT/LDAC enabled phone or devices like Hiby. Hiby devices seem able to transport over UAT/LDAC Bluetooth with their own Hiby link (while using the Tidal app for first unfold) to Hiby link enabled DAC’s. What is not clear to me is if you still need the proprietary “connect” (Tidal connect e.g.) or is this obsolote in case of UAT?
Has anyone experience with these Hiby devices linked to Hiby link (over UAT) enabled gear (like SMSL US-9 or M500 e.g.)?
Another question: is this transport jitter free? Does it keep the MQA data untouched for full unfold or does it send first unfolded to an MQA renderer? Or does the Hiby device fully unfold and then send lossy data over UAT?
Otherwise the Tidal app on mobile devices in Master mode can do a first unfold to an external “rendering only” USB/Lightning (for Android/Apple) connected DAC (for desktop models through USB B and for newer models A) for further full unfold. However it may introduce some jitter and/or noise problems depending on your mobile device outlet and DAC USB input quality? It is unclear to me if there is “jitter issues” when the first unfold is done on another device than the final unfold renderer. I could not find anything in the MQA documentation on this. I suspect there can be an issue.
If you want to send the music wirelessly by Volumio to a Raspberry or Odroid and connect the USB DAC to this device you will have wireless bitperfect MQA, is my understanding. (See also here:
MQA with authenticated DAC and RPi - MyVolumio / MyVolumio Help and Support - Volumio.) as long as you use a full decoder DAC (not just a MQA renderer). The first unfold is in this case done by the last device in the chain: the USB DAC. Next to convenience I understand this has also benefits of transport control (jitter free).
But then again: I wonder even when the transport is not controlled in the way an MQA full decode (and/or Roon) does for example, how much jitter will even possibly show up with UAT/LDAC? Bluetooth is not lossless, but because there is minimal compression needed and hardly bandwidth restrictions it may be comparable to full MQA for sound quality anyway (if it is not already because of some MQA transport control does actually apply on UAT?).
Roon (which I am using too now) includes both hi-res and MQA and has for both the advantage of transport control (RAAT), so jitter is (almost?) absent. It is technically unclear to me whether or not an MQA final unfold has the same transport control as Roon. Anyone here can explain?
I do not see much benefits from Roon anymore if MQA can do this transport control wirelessly (via Volumio Tidal Connect e.g.) or virtually or completely (if transport control existst) absent by UAT (over Hiby link or another direct Bluetooth link) within my own network. I am not considering now the other benefits like their great Roon app layout, radio and seemless integrated access to NAS stored files. I think Roon RAAT covers all transport challenges, but is way too expensive and unfortunately always needs a Core device somewhere in the home netwerk (on your NAS or Raspberry e.g.), which prevents the so much desired mobile benefits “on the road”.
P.s. II: sorry for the long read. I edited to try and make the questions I still have more clear. 
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Just curious.
What’s the fuzz for MQA? It’s nice for your phone when streaming on 4/5G when you have a limited dataplan as it needs less bandwidth. It’s compressed Hi_res audio, for which you need tp pay additional. Either for the streaming service or the MQA enabled gear your using.
I simply don’t get it.
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het zou ingepakte studio kwaliteit moeten zijn, is zeker niet in alle gevallen zo.
it should be compressed studio quality, but this is not in all cases.
I will try to explain why it is beneficial to me. However not everyone has the same needs, please bear that in mind.
- I want to avoid all the work of ripping my old cd’s, or to pay a huge amounts for hi-res files.
- Not only that: I found myself even with a highly integrated app like Roon constantly checking: is this my own rip, do I still need it? Why is it appearing double in the overview? Some high-res music files I will keep anyway, that are not on Tidal yet, but I am quite sure 95% is on. So I decided to get rid of the administrative work and gradually I delete all the NAS music files that I can find on Tidal.
- I can now download/stream anytime on any Tidal device music file quality level (size) that I like. With e.g. Qobuz you can not choose. So you will have huge amounts of datas on your phone (and lots of time to download when getting a new phone) when you decide to put them “offline” on the phone.
- When streaming on the road, I can choose to use low bandwidth and when at home i choose high bandwidth, using the same playlist. I do not want any separation of playlists.
- Qobuz for example pushes the music stream to the endpoint. So you need an expensive controller to push without loss. With Tidal you can tell your endpoint with any cheap mobile device that has a Tidal app to pull the music. The only lossy part is the compression itself (which is high end quality), but not the transport. The transport can in fact mess up a lot, especially while trying to push large files over a network. The chances are likely that pushing a huge file can mess up more than some theoretical inaudible MQA lossy data loss. I exaggerate a little now to make it more understandable, but this seems to me the reason why it was designed this way.
- I am not sure what you mean by paying extra but Tidal including MQA is in my view currently cheaper than most other high-res services. Probably because they need lesser bandwidth.
Maybe this explanation clears up some motivations to you?
Anyway I guess the world would look different if there was unlimited bandwidth and devices with unlimited processor power and storage 
BTW: with Roon you have your NAS files conveniently in the same overview but Roon does not play when on the road. I like to be able to download or stream my music any time any place. (I know you can also access NAS from abroad, and play for example using DS Audio app, but I prefer the situation where I do not have to maintain a NAS for this purpose).
I am afraid not everyone understands Dutch (like I do lol) 
translation added … het sluipt er af en toe in Martinz7
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we got otherwise shit on the marble over here …
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yes and then have we the dolls on the dancing.
We are crazy henkie not
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Hi,
I am new to volumio, i cant get the mqa unfold on my integrated amp - lyngdorf tdai-3400. This amp are able to unfold mqa and they claim it does work in the usb input as well. however, it doesnt work with volumio. It only get up to 24/48 in playing the same song. do the mqa support determine and negotiate by usb protocol or its kind of a device whitelist that needed to be add by Volumio team manually ?
Thanks
Gordon
New to volumio… Allow Only 1 attachment in one
Below image show volumio via usb, only capable output 24/48
post
Did you turn off Audio Sampling and choose Hardware Mixer in Playback Options?
yes, hardware mixed / Audio resampling off are set by default.
Volume set to 100% on Volumio?
Yes, i did. 🥲