volumio
October 27, 2016, 8:25pm
21
Patrick, kudos for such explanation, really comprehensive and sensible.
I agree on all the line. IMHO the first (altough there are others) reason why such DACs are so good sounding is their communication path. No conversions via USB or SPDIF. The audio stream just does the shortest path. The only big issue of this approach is the clock (that on PI is very poor), that introduces jitter (i2s is a very jitter prone interface), and there’s where the Reclockers like the Kali comes in.
I’m planning to do an extensive research on quick mods that can be done to the PI to make it reach higher levels.
PatrickB:
simonb007:
Sounds interesting.
So would you say that the Piano option would be as good as buying a dedicated DAC, appreciating i would lose the streaming facility.
Also, is there a case available for the piano setup?
I wouldn’t say that a Pi plug-on DAC is as good as a dedicated (not el cheapo) DAC. Purely looking at the Digital/Analog Conversion side of things, most dedicated DACs are better equipped than the (much cheaper) PI DACs. Although they might be utilizing the same DAC Chip (either TI/BurrBrown or ESS Sabre or others), it is the surrounding electronics of the DAC that make the chip to perform (or not).
But, the problem is with feeding the DAC a good and clean signal. And this is where when we use a Pi as the source, it becomes hard to fully take advantages of the quality of a dedicated DAC. The Pi just isn’t a very good device to generate a good digital input signal for most DACs. This makes that the difference between the (cheaper) Pi plug-on I2S DAC boards and a dedicated DAC is often not really noticeable.
Issue area’s are:
I2S clock signal (timing and jitter)
Power supply ‘noise’ in the signal
Poor USB transfer (not in slave mode, bad timing and also noisy. Actually not a full compliant USB chip but ‘just’ an USB OTG chip)
If you think you would like to have the best thing possible, a dedicated DAC is prefered but only if you find a way to feed the DAC a proper signal. As said, this is hard/difficult using a Pi. You can better look for a different device, look for example at x86 devices for which Volumio 2 will become available
See this example of a Pi based player that can feed I2S DAC’s: magnahifi.com/index.php/webs … MH-HE-Pi2S
But when you prefer (like me) a more workable/affordable solution and don’t aim for the highest-high-end hifi possible, and like the Pi as a good bases, there are some good Pi DAC boards out-there. The new Kali re-clocker board (not a DAC!) improves a lot on 2 Pi issues, which are a much better I2S clock signal and low jitter, and also takes away of the PS noise. This gives a much better input signal for any Pi DAC that can work with this board. Also the Hifiberry DAC Pro+ is a newer but good option as it next to a good D/A part, also improves both on timing/jitter and PS issues.
Hopefully the above helps to make live easier in choosing (or not
Thanks for your info.
I did originally look at getting an external DAC solution but deemed it too expensive.
The Pi looks like ultimate solution for my needs.
I do like the idea of the HiFiberry DAC Pro+. The only downside, from what I have read, is that in order to get the best sound from it, requires the use of a soldering iron, to give it an external power source of its own. Something that is beyond me…
The Kali re-clocker / piano option also looks like a very good solution, but seems to currently lack a case. Plus there are the unknown import costs…
What is the HiFiBerry like without the mods ?
kaptainen:
I would say its open, fast and detailed… Puts a smile on my face
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Have you compared it to other dacs?
simonb007:
PatrickB:
simonb007:
Sounds interesting.
So would you say that the Piano option would be as good as buying a dedicated DAC, appreciating i would lose the streaming facility.
Also, is there a case available for the piano setup?
I wouldn’t say that a Pi plug-on DAC is as good as a dedicated (not el cheapo) DAC. Purely looking at the Digital/Analog Conversion side of things, most dedicated DACs are better equipped than the (much cheaper) PI DACs. Although they might be utilizing the same DAC Chip (either TI/BurrBrown or ESS Sabre or others), it is the surrounding electronics of the DAC that make the chip to perform (or not).
But, the problem is with feeding the DAC a good and clean signal. And this is where when we use a Pi as the source, it becomes hard to fully take advantages of the quality of a dedicated DAC. The Pi just isn’t a very good device to generate a good digital input signal for most DACs. This makes that the difference between the (cheaper) Pi plug-on I2S DAC boards and a dedicated DAC is often not really noticeable.
Issue area’s are:
I2S clock signal (timing and jitter)
Power supply ‘noise’ in the signal
Poor USB transfer (not in slave mode, bad timing and also noisy. Actually not a full compliant USB chip but ‘just’ an USB OTG chip)
If you think you would like to have the best thing possible, a dedicated DAC is prefered but only if you find a way to feed the DAC a proper signal. As said, this is hard/difficult using a Pi. You can better look for a different device, look for example at x86 devices for which Volumio 2 will become available
See this example of a Pi based player that can feed I2S DAC’s: magnahifi.com/index.php/webs … MH-HE-Pi2S
But when you prefer (like me) a more workable/affordable solution and don’t aim for the highest-high-end hifi possible, and like the Pi as a good bases, there are some good Pi DAC boards out-there. The new Kali re-clocker board (not a DAC!) improves a lot on 2 Pi issues, which are a much better I2S clock signal and low jitter, and also takes away of the PS noise. This gives a much better input signal for any Pi DAC that can work with this board. Also the Hifiberry DAC Pro+ is a newer but good option as it next to a good D/A part, also improves both on timing/jitter and PS issues.
Hopefully the above helps to make live easier in choosing (or not
Thanks for your info.
I did originally look at getting an external DAC solution but deemed it too expensive.
The Pi looks like ultimate solution for my needs.
I do like the idea of the HiFiberry DAC Pro+. The only downside, from what I have read, is that in order to get the best sound from it, requires the use of a soldering iron, to give it an external power source of its own. Something that is beyond me…
The Kali re-clocker / piano option also looks like a very good solution, but seems to currently lack a case. Plus there are the unknown import costs…
What is the HiFiBerry like without the mods ?
I am in the same situation. I´d rather buy a new pair of speakers that a 500 euro DAC.
Has anyone tried the HIFIBerry, Piano/ Kali combination DACs against an external DAC, such as :
Arcam irDAC
I am toying with the Idea of using an External DAC, so that I have more flexibility as to what I can plug into it.
Bearing in mind that I am looking for a nice warm-sounding signature to compliment the Arcam equipment I already have.
Thanks
I have compared it to my hifiberry dac+ and a Cambridge dacmagic…
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
and what is your opinion?
Kali+piano a clear winner
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
htgear
November 16, 2016, 4:42am
29
Good info here as I am looking at the following as well HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, Mamboberry LS DAC+/Kali combo, Kali + Piano Bundle and undecided on which route to go.
FWIW, I had a RPi2 with HFB Digi+ feeding a Musical Fidelity V-DAC II + V-PSU II combo. I switched to a HFB Dac Pro, just to see what people were talking about (this cheap stuff can never match proper kit…). I then added a separate PSU to the analogue side of the HFB card and the standard of reproduction went up again. She Who Must Be Obeyed (who takes very little interest in the hardware and my efforts) sat up in surprise and commented that the sound was much more like what she first heard from the vinyl LPs. That was the point at which I sold the MF kit… The Musical Fidelity stuff went onto Ebay that day
Chris M
Hello i will probably sell Mamboberry LS DAC+ which I have two weeks, for my Yamaha Amp and too live speakers Piano suits sligtly better.
Regards
Vita
Any timetable for native Volumio support for the Hifiberry DAC + Pro? Would like to try it out and utilize all of its features.
Thanks.
degarmo
December 14, 2016, 4:26am
33
kaptainen:
I’ll go for the kali+piano solution if I were you… I have that setup and its amazing, used to have the hifiberry dac+ and the kali+piano gives so much more in openness and detail… Remembered first time I improved my setup at home from NAD amps to a Lyngdorf… Much better sound but also that my music collection was in poor mp3 quality… Because I could hear a difference in music quality… the kali+piano combo gives that same quality lift in music as when I changed amp… The details are amazing! Like having a complete new setup
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Is the piano DAC by itself superior to the HiFiBerry DAC+ or does one need to add to the piano DAC the Kali relocker for best results? What Pi are you using and what speakers?
I am planning to make the switch from CDs to Volumio using the Pi and Kali+Piano, along with a Yamaha Integrated and the KEF LS50’s. I’m thinking that I’m in for a treat. My former system was a Rotel separates system with CD player and Paradigm speakers. I think there is probably a lot to be gained just by converting from CD player to Pi & DAC. Thoughts?
degarmo
degarmo
December 14, 2016, 4:37am
34
I don’t understand why the 2.1 has 4 cable ports instead of 2 like the Piano 2 has? Can anyone enlighten me?
degarmo:
kaptainen:
I’ll go for the kali+piano solution if I were you… I have that setup and its amazing, used to have the hifiberry dac+ and the kali+piano gives so much more in openness and detail… Remembered first time I improved my setup at home from NAD amps to a Lyngdorf… Much better sound but also that my music collection was in poor mp3 quality… Because I could hear a difference in music quality… the kali+piano combo gives that same quality lift in music as when I changed amp… The details are amazing! Like having a complete new setup
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Is the piano DAC by itself superior to the HiFiBerry DAC+ or does one need to add to the piano DAC the Kali relocker for best results? What Pi are you using and what speakers?
I am planning to make the switch from CDs to Volumio using the Pi and Kali+Piano, along with a Yamaha Integrated and the KEF LS50’s. I’m thinking that I’m in for a treat. My former system was a Rotel separates system with CD player and Paradigm speakers. I think there is probably a lot to be gained just by converting from CD player to Pi & DAC. Thoughts?
degarmo
Havent tested without the Kali. But would think that it’s a huge part in the great sound the combo delivers
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
Friend… 2 LR outs … 2 LR subwoofer out
Is there a case for the Kali Piano combo?
